Atheist News edited by Edwin Kagin
Kentucky Atheists,
Phone: (859) 384-7000; Fax: (859) 384-7324; Web: http://www.atheists.org/ky/
Editor's personal web site: www.edwinkagin.com
Editor’s personal blog: http://edwinkagin.blogspot.com
Edited by:
Edwin Kagin, Kentucky State Director, American Atheists, Inc.
(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
I WAS BORN AN ATHEIST JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
To Unidentified Recipients:
AMERICAN ATHEISTS
http://www.atheists.org
Update: February 2, 2008
BEFORE DAWKINS AND KRAUSS AND
Thursday Night Jump Start (March 20, 2008) at
American Atheists Conference -- Rock the Night Away!
"
"The Blue Rose Rocket Band"
The 34th annual national conference of American Atheists will take place in
Rock the night away starting at 7:00 PM with the "Minnesota Freethought Band." Beginning at 8:00 PM, we'll feature the Kings of Minneapolis Rock, "Kwang" -- http://www.kwant.com . And from 9:30 PM to 11:30 PM, boogie with "The Blue Rose Rocket Band." All are welcome, and there's no cover charge.
We've arranged special "shoulder dates" for the conference room rate with the Minneapolis Marriott. That allows you to arrive two days before or after the regular conference and get the exclusive rate! Check out http://www.atheists.org/conference for more details and to register on line using our secure transaction server.
We'll see you in
WHO & WHAT: Rock the Night Away at the Thursday Night Jump Start, American Atheists Conference
WHEN: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:00 PM - 11:30 PM
WHERE: American Atheists Conference, Minneapolis Marriott Center City Hotel,
FEATURING: "Minnesota Freethought Band, starting at 7:00 PM at 8:00 PM, we'll feature the Kings of Minneapolis Rock, "Kwang" -- http://www.kwang.com . And from 9:30 PM to 11:30 PM, boogie with "The Blue Rose Rocket Band." All are welcome, and there's no cover charge.
MORE INFO: http://www.atheists.org/conference
(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
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HINT: Here is something it might be very nice for other organizations (like FIG) to become involved with. Edwin.
CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY RESOLUTION,
STATE MIRROR BILLS
This Wednesday, February 6, 2008 at the State Capitol
http://www.michiganatheists.org
Michigan Atheists will join Hard Core Atheists of Lansing to voice our objections to U.S. Congress looking to designate the first week in May as 'American Religious History Week.' Is this the first step to establish a Christian Theocracy in the
U.S. H. Res. 888: Affirming the rich spiritual and religious history of our Nations founding and subsequent history and expressing support for designation of the first week in May as 'American Religious History Week' for appreciation of and education on America's history of religious faith.
This an outrageous resolution preceded by seventy-five Whearas's, many of which overtly distort American history or are obvious lies. Please note that Timothy Walberg,
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.RES.888:
Please join us. Your voice is important.
DEMONSTRATION AREA: State Capitol, Lansing at the east lawn at Capitol and
WHEN: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 ~ 12:00 noon to 1:00 PM
Parking: There is metered parking on all streets around
Weather:
After demonstration get-together:
amarie@atheists.org Cell: (313) 938-5960 michiganatheists.org
American Atheists is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for non believers; works for the total separation of church and state and address issues of First Amendment public policy.
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From reader Jim. If everyone who does not share the Bronze Age views of the Arkonuts responded this well, and had the courage to do so, the American Religious Civil War would not be racking up nearly as high a the body count. Excellent, Jim. Excellent.
Edwin.
Dear Fellow Supporters (Theists and Non-theists) of Science and Reason,
The following article was written by Ken Ham, CEO of Answers in Genesis in response to my op ed piece in the
Cheers,
Creation Museum “Educational Injustice”
Published December 5th, 2007 in Press Coverage EMail This Post to a Friend
Yesterday, I reported on an article in the Courier-Journal newspaper (of
Today, I want to share—from the same
“There is a great educational injustice being inflicted upon thousands of children in this country, a large percentage of whom come from the
This is the usual emotional vitriolic attack we see from those opposed to biblical Christianity….
JW: When this cult leader is confronted with facts, he immediately labels the criticism as emotional and vitriolic
…the author tries to denigrate the
JW: What accusations are unsubstantiated? That you teach kids that a Biblical creation is supported by science? That you are in bed with the Christian home school movement? That you are tax-free? That you practice circular logic? That you offer no scientific facts to support your faith-based world-view? What is unsubstantiated?
For this person, secular evolutionists can take millions of children and teach them they are just animals resulting from natural processes (i.e., teach them atheism)
JW: I know of no science teachers that teach atheism and your inference that all evolutionists are atheist is a lie you use to scare your already frightened flock…to suggest humans are not animals is total ignorance…It reminds me of an article I read in the London Guardian newspaper about how hippos kill more humans in Africa than any other animal…then you turn the page and read about how rival tribes in Kenya are killing each other by the hundreds…oh the irony
…but Christians are not allowed to tell children the truth concerning their origins—that they were created and have meaning and purpose.
JW: So you know the truth and science doesn’t…biology doesn’t make sense without evolution…and I know many Christian who believe in evolution…who are you to question their faith? And why does acceptance of evolution mean someone has no meaning or purpose? Must meaning and purpose be defined only by your myopic perception of god? I know many atheists and agnostics who lead very full lives, contribute to society, raise wonderful children…again, who are you to say their lives lack meaning and purpose? I suggest that a life devoted to magical thinking and submission to delusional priests like you is far less meaningful and purposeful than a life based on reality, reason and the pursuit of truth.
“If adults want to believe in a 6,000-year-old Earth, that dinosaurs and humans lived together in harmony (all dinosaurs were vegetarians, you see) and that Noah saved all of the Earth’s animal species by placing them on his ark, then they have the right to do so.”
He needs to read the Bible.
JW: I have. As Chris Morris says: “…the Bible reads like the ramblings of a drugged horse.”
Noah did not save “all of the Earth’s animals species.” God sent TO Noah representatives of each LAND ANIMAL KIND. When one sees such incorrect information in a piece by a scientist, one has to worry whether the same lack of attention to accuracy is exhibited in his own research, or the research he supervises!
JW: Sorry I didn’t say land animal kind (whatever that means). What are the different kinds of dinosaurs that were sent on the ark? How were they fed for 40 days and 40 nights? Were there any deaths or did every single pair survive? How did animals from the other side of the earth reach Noah? Was Noah really 900 years old? How did Noah find the time to identify the sex of all the animals to make sure he had a female and a male? Were there any fights onboard or did all the predators and prey all get along? Where is your research Ham? And you accuse me of lack of attention to accuracy…
“What I object to is that thousands of children, particularly the growing number of Christian home-schooled children in this country, are visiting the museum in droves, much to the delight of the museum’s founder, Ken Hamm.”
Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
JW: Freedom of speech is fine. Fraud isn’t. You portray your ministry as science and it isn’t. Your own mission statement says that you reject anything that contradicts Genesis. A 6000 year old Earth is a bold-face lie and you know it.
And what right does this man have to tell parents what they can and can’t allow their children to hear concerning this matter of origins?
JW: As a former science teacher and lab director, I know quite a bit about appropriate science curriculums…you masquerade your religion as science and it is fraudulent.
And by the way, my last name is spelled with one m—“Ham.”
JW: I apologize for that…my name is spelled Jim Willmot, since you left it out of your letter.
“These kids are learning that despite a fossil record that clearly shows a progression of simple life forms becoming more complex life forms over billions of years . . .”
The fossil record does not clearly show this—evolutionists interpret the fossil record this way based on the beliefs they have to start with.
JW: Reminds me of a quote by Isaac Asimov (wrote and edited 500 books on science): “Creationists make it sound like a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.” Ken, why do 99% of scientists (many of whom are people of faith) basically agree that the fossil record shows simple life forms becoming more complex life forms (with stops and starts) over periods of millions of years (3800 million to be precise)? Why are there no human fossils found with dinosaur fossils? Why are there no mammal or reptile fossils in the Devonian coral beds of the Falls of the
“(the first” bacteria are believed to have established themselves approximately 3.8 billion years ago) . . .
At least he said “believed.”
JW: Belief can be based on facts and evidence as well as myths. I prefer to base my beliefs on facts, not ancient, superstitious myths.
“. . .they are taught that the first man was made from clay and that the first woman was made from the man’s rib. Instead of learning that the process of natural selection,”
Here again he hasn’t done his homework—very poor research. Just go to AiG’s website and do a search for natural selection. One will find creationists believe in “natural selection.” Also, “natural selection” is taught throughout the
JW: I never said you didn’t believe in natural selection…you have no choice since there is so much evidence to support it. What I said was that you refuse to teach children that human beings were also the result of natural selection…and to say natural selection can only operate in existing gene pools is a bold-faced lie…lots of evidence that new genes arise due to mutation, transfer, migration, etc…research supports this…it just takes longer than your 6000 year time-frame…
“. . . over 3,800 millions of years, has changed populations of organisms into the approximately 10 million species (conservative estimate) that inhabit the Earth today, they are taught the “poof” theory of creationism.”
[Again—emotive language meant to mock.]
JW: Well, if you say god created the heavens and the earth and everything else in 6 days, that qualifies as a “poof’ in my book. Sorry if you feel I‘m mocking you.
“What is particularly sad about this ministry is that because they are so fervent in their mission to get people to believe (or rather make believe) in their simplistic world view, many Christian scientists and secular scientists are playing catch-up to counter the damage they are doing.”
Obviously the ministry is having an impact and people are taking notice! That’s a praise point.
JW: A praise point? No, just acknowledging that your monument to pseudo-science is exceeding attendance projections…something that is really a crying shame.
“The obstruction of scientific information is nothing new in the history of fundamentalist theology.”
“Obstruction of scientific information”? What nonsense. Some of the greatest scientists ever (e.g., Sir Isaac Newton) were creationists. Modern science (empiricism) that built our technology, came out of a Christian basis! This man needs to do his homework in regard to the rise of modern science.
JW: I need to do my homework? The Enlightment and the Scientific Revolution occurred when organized religions relaxed their grip on the pursuit of knowledge. Galileo lived in exile the last decades of his life. Copernicus gave the go-ahead to publish his writings while on his death-bed for fear of church retribution. Da Vinci’s drawings of human dissection were burned. Hell, churches still ban birth control, even in countries with soaring birth rates and an AIDs epidemic. And are you saying all science is Christian based? What about the great Arab mathematicians and physicists? What about the Chinese? Your argument that
“What is new is the way this organization is using the power of radio (AIG is broadcast over 850 radio stations), the Internet and, now, a pseudo-natural history museum to convince well-meaning, hard-working people that science is not to be trusted . . .”
“Science is not to be trusted”?? AiG employs scientists like Dr. Gerogia Purdom and Dr. Jason Lisle. Besides, the root meaning of the word science is knowledge. Is he saying knowledge is not to be trusted?
JW: Your PhDs are just part of your closed circle. Your statement of faith (nothing is true if it contradicts scripture) negates their credentials and their research since science doesn’t work that way. And my whole article is telling people to trust science and evidence-based knowledge and not the superstitious writings of ignorant men. By the way, I heard PhD astrophysicist Jason Lisle speak at a press conference and excuse me for saying this but he has his head firmly up his ass…and it’s up there pretty far.
Certainly in that sense, AiG is warning people that the supposed knowledge of molecules-to-man evolution (based on blind faith) is not to be trusted and that real observational science actually confirms the Bible’s history.
JW: Evolution is based on blind faith and science confirms the Bible? …that’s rich…transubstantiation (bread and wine turning into flesh and blood), virgin birth, walking on water, miracles, resurrection from the dead, forgiveness of sin due to human sacrifice…lots of science in these stories.
“. . .that the theory of evolution is evil and that belief in scientific theories of our creation leads to barbaric behaviors.”
Again, the typical misrepresentation of what we say in regard to the consequences of atheistic evolution. Evolution is not the cause of evil things that people do—sin is the cause. But the more people believe they are just animals, then the more they will act in accord with this, as the student in
JW: Evolution=belief that humans descended from animals = humans acting like animals = sin = evil = deranged teenager killing people. Therefore evolution = killing people. Sorry, but I thought you were capable of making those connections Ken. Maybe he wouldn’t have killed those people if he realized we are here for just a short time (80 years) and we should make the best of it, and it is a lot nicer if you practice the animalistic instinct of cooperative behavior, also called the golden rule, which is the foundation of all religions. 99% of all murderers believe in God. How about the pilot that killed 219 people in 1999 when he flew his plane into the sea…his last words, “I put my faith in God.” According to your logic, the example of this pilot would mean that all people who believe in God are potential murderers.
“As Mark Twain once said, ‘A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.’ Last month in
“They have a staff of over 300 scientists working on various projects to gain a better understanding of the Earth and the creatures that inhabit (or did inhabit) our planet. Is there not something wrong when thousands of people are flocking to Northern Kentucky and paying $20 a pop to see a Flintstones-like interpretation of pre-history, and yet anyone who lives in or visits
I have been to the Natural History Museum in
JW: The point that I was trying to make is that the UK makes sure it’s citizens have a quality natural history museum for anyone to see for free…Kentucky’s latest contribution is a creation museum (backed by the ex-governor) at $20 a person. No wonder our state is 49 out of 50 when it comes to university science graduates. And gee, just think what government funding would do for Ham’s salary of a measly $135,000 / year (plus expenses).
And this writer is correct—the Natural History Museum in London is much bigger than the Creation Museum—they have many more specimens—far greater collections. He can mock the
JW: I wasn’t mocking your size, Ken…
…but he also said in this article that it is being noticed, and he says secular scientists are trying to do “catch-up to counter the damage they are doing.” So, if it is such a small insignificant museum, why are the secular scientists worried about it? Why does this writer spend so much time mocking the museum and giving it even more notoriety? Apparently, for a small museum the
JW: It matters because you are indoctrinating kids into a cult of ignorant fundamentalism that sells religion as science. I wish your ministry would whither and die on its own but unfortunately, people are only too willing to believe your 3500 year old myth (Genesis) offers a ticket to the afterlife. It is the perfect scam…you never have to deliver on anything you promise. “Shock waves around the world!” is a bit over the top, even for you Kenny.
“It seems fraudulent to me that the hard work and knowledge of generations of truth-seeking scientists from Galileo to Sagan . . .”
Sagan was an atheist! Can such a person be “truth seeking” when he had already decided there was no God and that the Bible was not relevant!
JW: Carl Sagan was one of the greatest astronomers and popularizers of science of the 20th century. He was an author of countless peer-reviewed articles and books and a NASA consultant for years. He was also an excellent teacher (I took his class in college). He was the definition of a truth seeker, leading him to the conclusion that while the Bible and other religious traditions might be helpful to some people in their daily lives (he often discussed the nature of science from a historical perspective, even a Biblical perspective…so your claim that he felt the Bible was irrelevant is again a lie) it doesn’t mean these ancient myths actually happened or that religious experience is a true phenomenon. He was fond of saying “extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence”, a true statement that completely contradicts the philosophy of AIG. He also said, “Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.” Amen Carl. By the way, there are many, many scientists, past and present, who are atheist…and the number is increasing as the fear of retribution from the religious establishment diminishes.
“. . . from Darwin to Dawkins, is now being hijacked and twisted to teach our children that the sciences of paleontology, evolutionary biology, astronomy, geology, physics, etc., are not to be trusted . . .”
This is simply not true. AiG employs a PhD geneticist, geologist, and astrophysicist (Drs. Purdom, Snelling, and Lisle) and works closely with many other scientists, including a creation paleontologist who received his PhD from
JW: Again, these people are creation scientists, which is an oxymoron since their whole approach to science is to prove a given instead of letting the evidence lead to the truth. You can say you have scientists on staff until you’re blue in the face, but if they offer no observable, repeatable evidence for their theories, they are fraudulent. Evolutionary biologist have tons of evidence that they use to construct theories. Your staff bends both the observational and historical science to get the result you want.
“. . . and that unquestioning faith in ancient texts is the only way to know truth. The Christian community, especially, needs to speak out against this injustice, and speak out loudly.”
If the written Word of God cannot be trusted, then there would be no Christian community!
JW: If everyone truly followed the written Word of God, it would be a very nasty world indeed. God tells us how to treat our slaves, what to do if you rape a woman, how to sell your daughter as a slave, when to stone someone to death, how you must kill those who worship other gods, etc. Check out evilbible.com.
“There are several scientific/faith-based organizations that are doing just that. One in particular, the American Scientific Affiliation (www.asa3.org) is a group of Christians who have reconciled science with their faith in ways that allows the pursuit of knowledge to move forward unencumbered, unlike ministries such as AIG.”
Sadly, there are such organizations with Christians who have compromised the Word of God with secular ideas—this has contributed to the loss of biblical authority of the nation and thus the secularization of the culture.
JW: They haven’t been secularized enough in my opinion. I am a believer in religious freedom, as long as it doesn’t harm people… I consider filling people’s heads with ideas like ‘people and dinosaurs were once buddies’ as harmful. But where is the condemnation of AIG from religious moderates? The silence is deafening.
“Christian home-school organizations should follow the lead of this organization when suggesting science curricula to its members, and discontinue using the creation museum as a source of any scientific information.”
The opposite is actually happening—which we praise the Lord for.
JW: I’ll bet you do, and the money keeps rolling in as your hooks go deeper and deeper and your devotees lose more and more of their ability to reason….by the way, how is the lawsuit going? You know, the one your former employer has filed against AIG, accusing you of stealing their subscribers lists?
“One other change needs to occur to keep home-schooled children from being misled by creationists. The
Watch out, Home Schoolers in
JW: Excuse me for suggesting that science be a requirement of home-schools in
“If the beginning of the 21st Century is any indication of how the rest of the century unfolds, we must prepare future generations of Americans for a bumpy ride. We need citizens who understand that human activity does have an impact on the environment so that methods can be developed (largely by scientists and other creative thinkers) to reduce our footprints. We need artists, scientists, politicians, teachers, etc., who seek to understand (not necessarily change) people from different cultures, so that avenues of peaceful cooperation and dialogue always remain open.”
He wants dialogue to “always remain open” as long as dialogue about the biblical creationist position is totally closed!!!
JW: Yes, I do want dialogue of biblical creationism as a science totally closed in education because it is misleading and deceptive, just like I think teaching the Holocaust never happened should not be allowed, or that pigs can fly. I have no problem if people want to discuss their faith in their churches, mosques and synagogues (there are other religions Ken). However, your cult takes your faith to another level, leading to absolutist ideas, close-mindedness and intolerance of anything that doesn’t fit your biblical world-view. What if one of your children were gay? Would you kill him or her as the bible instructs? What if your daughter was raped and got pregnant? Would you not at least consider an abortion? What if your child wanted to marry a non-Christian? These are all issues that cause real problems for rigid fundamentalists…often resulting in tragic consequences due to intolerance and dogmatism.
“We do not need citizens who are closed-minded, anti-knowledge fundamentalists who want to see the world move closer to the Biblical prophecies of an Armageddon. (AIG also believes in a literal interpretation of the Book of Revelation.)”
Actually, AiG doesn’t have an official position on a particular eschatological position except accepting there will be a bodily return of Christ. AiG/Creation Museum doesn’t even talk about “Armageddon.”
JW: And why is that Ken? I thought you believed in the Bible, cover to cover? Could it be that the Book of Revelations is too wacky even for you? Are you afraid to align yourself with the true believers who think the end times is next year, or the year after? Do you believe in the inerrant description of the apocalypse or don’t you? It’s amusing that your website is all about the inerrancy of Genesis and the Bible, but when it comes to the End Times, your organization remains strangely silent. Seems a bit cowardly to me…
“Unfortunately, the creation museum in
If we are so small compared to great museums like the one in
JW: Small businesses (like yours) can be successful as well, Ken. I’m sure part of you is worried about becoming too big since ministries like yours like to grow in the dark since too much light reveals too much about you. This is an old trick that most religions practice. AIG is the definition of non-thinking and anti-reasoning…you insult the human race by intimidating people into believing they are incapable of leading a moral life unless they believe in Christ and if they don’t, they are doomed to everlasting fire. I would say your ministry is far more intimidating and insulting than anything this former science teacher has ever uttered.
Does the reader really think there was a lot of logical reasoning in this Courier-Journal op-ed piece?
JW: I love when creationists question the logic and reason of their critics. Talk about delicious irony. Ride that dinosaur Kenny-boy!
Here is the link to the article:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/OPINION04/712020428
Well—thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying. …
Ken
JW: …and how about a small donation to make sure God hears your prayer? Instead of prayer, might I suggest another option if people want to contribute to society? In the words of Robert Ingersoll, “Hands that help are far better than lips that pray.” To paraphrase, taking a child to a real science center, giving them a real science book, doing an experiment with them, or showing them the wondrous facts and theories behind evolution are far better than taking them to a pseudo-science museum. \
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Edwinian video ramblings:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=212629942&blogID=350398122
posted by Anonymous | Sunday, February 03, 2008
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